University of North Texas Oral History Collection

Interview with Billie Mohair
Interviewer: Richard Byrd
Place of Interview: Denton, Texas
Date of Interview: February 25, 1988

Mr. Byrd:
This is Richard Byrd interviewing Billie Mohair for the North Texas State University Oral History Collection. The interview is taking place on February 25, 1988, in Denton, Texas. I'm interviewing Ms. Mohair in order to obtain her recollections concerning the Denton Christian Women's Interracial Fellowship.

Ms. Mohair, could you tell us a little bit about your background-where you were born, your education, career, whatnot?

Ms. Mohair:
Well, I'm a Denton native. I was born and raised here and attended school here -- elementary school and also high school. I attended North Texas State and also TWU. I graduated from -- at that time -- the all-black school, which was Fred Moore. Since that time, they have closed that school.

I'm married and my husband is Clyde Mohair. He also is a native of the City of Denton. We have four children -- four sons, to be exact -- ranging in ages from twenty-six down to fourteen. My youngest, Todd, is in Calhoun Junior High School. I have one other son at home at this time, George Mohair. He finished at Denton High, and he's living at home and working.

So we were born and raised here, ourselves, and we raised our family here, and we love Denton. Maybe it's because we don't know anyplace else, hut we think it's a great place.  We think it was a great place to raise our family, being close to Dallas and Fort Worth yet in a small setting here in Denton.

My husband also attended North Texas. He didn't graduate, but he also attended North Texas. He graduated from high school here in the city, also. So, I guess that's kind of about where we are right now.

Byrd:
When did you graduate from Fred Moore?

Mohair:
Oh, well, you know, that's been so long ago that I'd like to forget the date, but it was in 1959.

Byrd:
How would you describe life in Denton as you were growing up?

Mohair:
Well, I think Denton has always kind of been a laid back town. Being a part of the black community was...of course, at that time you knew no different than what was going on. Now, of course, you think about things that should have possibly been different. But at the time, we were quite content with our lives, being raised in Denton. Of course, we knew there were restrictions on some things you could and could not do. There were places you could go and could not go, and you accepted that. Not that you liked it, but you accepted it. You followed the rules in order to have a peaceful existence in the town. So I think it was just part of an accepted way of life-the way we grew up. This is not to say that we were unhappy, because I suppose that was just kind of the way that was accepted for the blacks at that time.

I feel like I had a happy childhood. I was not disturbed or anything about what was going on around me. My family, my mom and dad...I think they've been here in Denton since about 1939 or 1940 or something like that. My dad used towork on a ranch out west of Denton, called the Underwood Ranch. They lived out there. So then I think in the early 1940s they moved to town. I think I was about three years old at that time. So we lived here all that time, so that was just the only way I knew, which is the way we were raised here in Denton. We weren't, say, just "poor poor," but we were kind of an average family. That's just kind of the way we were.

Byrd:
You said something about restrictions. Could you describe what kind?

Mohair:
Well, naturally, we all know that blacks were not allowed to go everywhere the whites were. Say, for instance, downtown you had your signs then. You had your separate water fountains where one said "colored" (which usually didn't work), and then you had one that said "white." You had your restrooms that said "white" and "colored," of course. You had to hold your nose until you could go in and come out if you could possibly do it that long. Of course, there were eating places where you knew you weren't allowed to go unless it was possible that you could go to the back of the place and get served. There were drive-in places -- hamburger places and things that were soon put up -- that would not serve you. Sometimes they did not say "you cannot be served here," but you sat there and you just were not served.  We knew, of course, usually not to go in; you just knew that. Those that had drive-ins or waitresses that would come out, so to speak, they just didn't come to your car.  Also, at that time the movie houses were not open to us but, say, except one they had. I believe it was called the Dreamland, and you could go in the back and up in the balcony. I guess I must have been about ten...no, I wasn't that old. I guess I was about six or seven, which was around the late 1940s, and we all had to go in this one movie house. Pretty soon they let us...there was some controversy over it, I'm sure, that had reached to the 1960s, and they let us go in the front. But then it was partitioned off where you could only go to a certain section, and then past that you could not come any farther to the front. At the drive-in movie, you could only park on rows fourteen and fifteen or whatever the last two rows were. You could only park on those two rows. They had a concession stand, but we could not go in to get any kind of refreshments. You either had to take your own, or there sometimes would be someone from the concession stand to come out and take orders. They might come to your row and take your order. Sometimes they'd take your order, and they never came back. They decided, I guess, that they just didn't want to serve you even after they came around.

So these were some of the things that we experienced that were unpleasant; but, nonetheless, I guess to keep peace, we didn't object. We more or less tried to be happy within our own surroundings and kind of accepted the status quo, so to speak. I don't know ... I'm just trying to remember everything that happened. For instance, the drugstores downtown would serve drinks and things -- that sort of thing -- and when you'd go in, you could not sit down. They finally let us come in, but we could not sit down or anything like that. They might serve you a cool drink over the fountain, but that was all. So you just kind of had a feeling sometimes that you knew you weren't being fully accepted in any surroundings. Even though our money was accepted as well as the whites' -- it's spent the same -- the service was not the same. We didn't receive the same service. So that went on for many years. Of course, the times began to change, thank goodness, for the better in the Denton community in a lot of areas.

Byrd:
Could you be more specific about, say, the restaurants in particular? Which ones were accommodating and which ones were not?

Mohair:
Well, we didn't have that many in Denton. To tell you the truth, I can't really remember them. There used to be one downtown, but I can't think of the name now. Anyway, it would let you come to the back. As far as the others, there was just no way, front or back. So most of the time we only frequented our own black eating places. We just didn't bother to go and be insulted by having someone say they weren't going to serve you. We just didn't go to those places. Like I said, it's been a long time now, and things have changed so much downtown. Most of those places are gone. Offhand I really can't recall the names of some of them. I can remember where they were on the square, so to speak. That's what it was referred to. Downtown Denton was referred to as "the square." It was right around the courthouse area, and that was where most of the activity was. The dry goods stores and the pharmacies or the drugstores were all around in that area. That was where most of the eating places were until they started to putting drive-ins -- hamburger places and things like that. I can't remember the names of them.

Byrd:
When you were growing up as a child or a teenager, did you associate with whites at all, like, with children of the same age group?

Mohair:
Not very many that I can remember. We worked in the church -- my family did -- and I think in my teenage years there was a group from the First United Methodist Church downtown that would invite us to come.  We would work with their young people's group, and we would go out with them collecting for UNICEF and things like that. We had some association through the churches with some of the whites. But just as far as having a close relationship outside of that setting, I really don't remember that.

Byrd:
What part of town were you living in when your folks moved into Denton?

Mohair:
Well, the area that I grew up in was referred to as Solomon's Hill,  and I lived on east McKinney street. I don't know if you've ever been out in that area. Of course, it's always "across the tracks" because that's where most of black communities were at that time. But as you leave the post office and go east, it's located out in that area going toward Loop 288. So that's where I lived all my life. I grew up there until I married and moved to another area of town.

Byrd:
This area...was it mixed in any way population-wise? Were there whites living there as well?

Mohair:
Well, where I lived, on east McKinney, businesses faced us, and there were white divisions there. We lived kind of up front there. There were stores and a laundry. There was a laundry there and some other businesses. Of course, there was a residential area, too, that was close by. But basically, as far as whites living in the neighborhood or in the black community, I don't remember any.

Byrd:
Who were the property owners? I'm trying to find out who actually were the owners of property, especially rental property.

Mohair:
You know, it's funny you should ask that because I don't know. I don't know if you've seen this before [refers to document].

Byrd: No, I haven't.

Mohair:
You've never seen this? This was done by the Denton Women's Interracial Fellowship in 1968, and it's a street survey of southeast Denton that was conducted. It's catalogued and is here in the library. Until then, I never had a good concept of who owned what in the black community. This came about when we were working to get the streets paved. I may be kind of jumping ahead of your questions, but the Denton Women's Interracial Fellowship was instrumental in getting those streets paved. All this information we had to find out before we could get that going. One of the main women who was in our group and who headed this or was the chairperson of this was Trudy Foster. I really admire her because she undertook such a great project and was kind of buffeted, herself, for doing such a thing because it was kind of ... well, it wasn't really popular to go into the black community and try to get things done that had been needing to be done for many, many years. So I'm sure it really wasn't a very popular thing for her to do, but she did it.  And we have certainly benefited from it, even to this day.

There's many interesting things in this booklet. In fact, it lists the people that were part of the survey and interviews from the city officials, and this is the survey information [refers to document] . Here's a quick questionnaire on the paving of the streets (gesture). Here's the persons
working on the survey (gesture) o Here are charts. Here's the Committee for the Development of Southeast Denton. By category here are the rental properties owned by whites, the major landlords. Here are graphic statistics on the streets in favor of the paving and those opposed to it. We had many whites that did own property in southeast Denton who did not pay for having the streets paved because they didn't think it was necessary because, you know, it was just the black community. They didn't see why it was necessary. Of course, this is an analysis of the streets, the number of property owners. So this book will give you a great insight, I'm sure.

This is kind of an introduction to the Women's Interracial Fellowship survey that was  conducted in southeast Denton. It started in 1968. It got the street paving underway. I know it was still going on in 1969 and 1970 because they did just a few at a time. Like I said, I know that's jumping ahead into the interview. But until that time, I didn't know-and I'm sure many of them didn't really know-the property that was actually owned by blacks and the property that was actually owned by whites and rented to the blacks there. It was quite interesting to find that out because many of them did not even live in the city; therefore, many of the areas that were quite rundown were owned by property owners that didn't even live here in the city. That was interesting to find out.

Byrd:
I've heard that there were some black absentee landlords who were opposed to paving. I don't know where to find out information on the proportion on them, but it may be in this volume here. I heard that they were from California, a real estate group from California, that were primarily black financiers and whatnot.  We've been trying to find out what proportion of the ownership was absentee black and absentee white.

Informally, I've had some insight as to how Ms. Foster worked in her church with some photographs of properties that she had in front of the church. Are you familiar with that tale?

Mohair:
No, not that I remember. It's been quite a long time ago.

Byrd:
She sounded like she really "lowered the boom" on some of her fellow parishioners or folks in her church just by putting the photographs up in the lobby of the church.

Mohair:
I'm sure she wasn't very popular.

Byrd:
You said she met some resistance in her actions.

Mohair:
She did. She would go to city hall and ask for records to check for these landlords and boundary areas and that sort of thing. I think she met with some resistance there because they just didn't care to search out some of those things for her. But she just kept being persistent until she found out all the information that she felt was important to get the survey going and also to continue keeping up with the percentages of the in-town landlords and out-of-town landlords and all of this sort of thing. She knew about where to go to get the information, but they didn't always want to furnish it.

Byrd:
On the streetpaving that we alluded to earlier, the survey was instrumental in achieving that. Were all the streets in the white part of town paved or curbed or guttered? Was there a break where the majority of the streets were not paved in the black community?

Mohair:
I'm sure there were some areas in the outline of the city where maybe some whites lived that weren't paved maybe. There were many housing divisions at that time that were just automatically paved when they built the housing divisions, so there weren't many residential areas in the white sections that weren't paved.

Byrd:
You graduated from high school in 1959, and you started at North Texas?

Mohair:
Fall of 1959.

Byrd:
Fall of 1959. We're talking fairly recently after the school had been integrated, desegregated, whatever. How were you received on campus? Were you well-received? Were there many other blacks on campus at that time?

Mohair:
I just read the article in the paper that kind of brought back some memories the other day. That was during the time that Abner Haynes and many of the young people from the Dallas and Fort Worth area and surrounding areas had started to attend. As near as I can remember, in the classroom you felt comfortable, but you felt like that was the only area besides maybe the Union that you really felt a part of as far as being on campus and being a part of campus life. At that time I felt like the line was pretty well drawn. I don't mean to say a black line was drawn, but it was kind of an invisible line there. You just didn't feel a part of anything else. The black boys, of course, were welcomed to the athletic area because it improved the image of the school. But academic-wise, I think a lot of them had...I'm not going to say anything about the teachers because I'm not going to injure anybody in that way, and I'm not trying to implicate them to say they were prejudiced in any way. But I feel like a lot of them had already made their minds up that the black students just could not make it, and they were not going to waste their time on them. There were so many other students there -- white students-that they knew were up where they should be and would progress as they should in the classroom. I think they tolerated us, if you understand what I mean. I think, more or less, for the students that were attending at that time, it was totally a new thing for them. A lot of them were right out of high school and really didn't know what their rights were on campus, more or less. They had never been to colleges or or anything like that before.

But I think that past the classroom and past being able to sort of congregate in the Union at that time and listen to music and kind of chat between ourselves between classes, that was just about the campus life.

At that time, believe it or not, the black community had to open their houses to the students for them to have somewhere to stay because it was not provided for them here on campus. We all opened our homes; we built extra rooms on; we compacted our family in order to make extra room for those young people. Even after I married -- I know it must have been in 1964, 1965, or somewhere in the early 1960s -- we also did the same thing. That was even after I was out of school and married, myself. We did the same thing. We provided rooms for students. That was for North Texas and TWU. I'm trying to remember which school began to provide housing first. It might have been North Texas providing housing first.

Byrd:
So there was no dormitory housing for blacks, either, on TWU's campus?

Mohair:
No, there wasn't. Many of the students here now that are going have no idea that all of that went on. I'm sure they just think that it's always been more or less like it is now. But it hasn't. It hasn't always been as easy as it is now for them now to come in and pretty well mix and mingle as they please. It's changed a lot in that time. We were anxious for the students to go to school, and in order to help them, that's what the Denton black community did.

Byrd:
You said that you graduated from Fred Moore High school and then went that fall to North Texas as a freshman. Did you feel your academic preparation at Fred Moore was sufficient to continue on as a freshman in higher learning here?

Mohair:
Well, I had confidence in myself that I could. But, of course, after entering the classroom, you weren't sure if it was just kind of made more difficult for you or if you were deficient in some areas. Sometimes I felt like it wasn't broken down enough. Not to say that it had to be put on an elementary level for us, but after attending for a semester, I was quite discouraged. I thought that maybe I shouldn't waste my time. My father knew Dr. Dickie, who, I think, was head of registration at that time, and so I called and talked to him, and he encouraged me to come back. He said I had to realize what kind of school North Texas was. When you attended North Texas, you were more or less up against the best from many places. So we talked about my grade point average, and, of course I was very disappointed because I had been more or less an "A" and "B" student at Fred Moore and was here on academic scholarship at the time. I was valedictorian of my class.  So I was quite discouraged because I hadn't made "A's'' and "B ' s " like I had in high school. Anyway, he encouraged me to come back, and I did. I attended for another semester. So that was a year that I did attend North Texas, and then I did the old typical thing. I got married the next summer and didn't return until many years later.  I took some classes at TWU, but I have not attended anymore classes at North Texas since that time. I have often felt like ... I don't think it would have been that difficult for me had I continued because I think it was a matter of learning college methods and that sort of thing. I think it's something that you just have to be in to, and it takes longer than a year to do that. So I'm not going to say that my education was inferior nor the school was too hard. I'm not going to conclude that. I conclude that back then I should have gone longer, and I believe I could have gone longer, and I believe I could have made it regardless.

Byrd:
The major reason I was asking that question is that I was trying to lead to the tutoring program that the Women's Group undertook. I've had the impression that when they closed Fred Moore High School and were going to integrate the remainder of the public schools in Denton, there were six students who had gone through the transfer process and who wanted to go to the white high school in Denton. One of the concerns of the group was that because these six were seniors, they wanted to make sure that as they integrated, these six seniors were able to graduate. So they had this tutoring program, and that's the reason I was asking what your perception was of the quality of the education at Fred Moore. It seemed that some of the group thought that maybe the blacks were not up to the same grade level as many of the other schools. I don't know if it was because of the quality of instruction or quality of materials or the classrooms or the books or anything like that. I was wondering if you could speak to that.

Mohair:
Well, as we all know, in the black schools materials and books and things sometimes were of inferior quality. But I think that during that time it had improved a great deal. I can remember in younger days when, of course, you had to wait for secondhand textbooks. We waited until the white high school had finished with books, and then they would give them to us and that sort of thing. But I think in later years, say, during the time it was integrated, that had changed. It could have been that in earlier times, maybe in elementary school, some of those students did not pick up all that they should have. I would think that maybe some of the students might have needed some extra help. I don't remember who they were now or anything like that. I guess they just wanted to be sure that they excel and were able to graduate. I don't know what the surroundings of that was. I don't know if it was because they were giving the students a hard time at Denton High. I don't remember exactly what surrounded that. I really wasn't with the group at the very beginning, so it might've been during that time that they had the tutoring sessions. I was not really a part of that, so I really don't have a feel for what went on and what the results of that were.

Byrd:
How did you learn about the group?

Mohair:
It was kind of by word-of-mouth. I belonged to the CME [Colored Methodist Episcopal] Methodist Church at that time. The pastor's wife was part of the group, and I think I learned about it through her. Then later on, there were others in the community.

Byrd:
Who was the pastor's wife?

Mohair:
Her name was Maureen Hawkins. She no longer lives here. She lives in the Tyler area, I think. But that's how I learned about it at that time.

Byrd:
What did you think of the description of the group?

Mohair:
Well, it sounded very interesting at the time, and it sounded like a group that I was interested in being a part of. They were told to invite different ones to the group meeting in order to get more people involved because,  as I understand it, the group was more or less formed to try to help the blacks and the whites to be able to have a little better insight into the family life more or less. This was kind of how it started-to kind of air things about how they really felt and to see what the group as a whole could do to try to heal some of these things that we knew weren't right. The blacks knew it, and the whites knew it, also. So I think it was a honest effort on the part of the group to try to undertake such a big job, and I think it had a great ending and a great result.

I think it served the Denton community very well while it was going on. Maybe some didn't even know it existed, but I'm awfully proud that I was a part of it during that time. I think at that time many of the whites had students that were attending Denton High. Some of us only had small children at the time or none at all, but we wanted to be part of the group because of the tendency it had to help us get together and to learn more about each other. We had only had opportunities to be with the white families if you were there working for the white families, and so that was the only "coming together," so to speak, that we had.   So I think that it was really a great thing because it served well in order for us to learn that they didn't feel like they were any greater as far as stature of a person. They made us know that right away. I think it took a special kind of people to even want to do that. I think only those that had the same feelings were invited into the group to keep a positive type of atmosphere in the setting. Many projects were undertaken during that time -- cultural, different crafts, and many things to help the group to get together as a group and not just blacks and whites.

Byrd:
Who, would you say, were the leaders of the group?

Mohair:
I would say Katherine McGuire, Trudy Foster, Othella Hill, Norvell Williams Reed...I'm trying to remember ... there were so many that belonged and who have now gone. I guess Linnie McAdams was in it at that time. It's been a long time, and I've forgotten a lot of these people. But basically, I think they were really the ones that kind of ran most of our activities.

Byrd:
It sounds like it's kind of a balance between the blacks and the whites.

Mohair:
I think they strived to have it that way. I think for that reason it was successful. Like I say, it was kind of an equal thing that we were all trying to promote in a positive type of setting. We invited positive-thinking people more or less.

Byrd:
When did you become a member or become involved in the activities?

Mohair:
Let me see. Well, it must have been 1962 or 1963—somewhere in there.

Byrd:
You've already talked about one project that was undertaken. Do you recall others and the motivation for specific projects you undertook? You talked to some extent about the street paving. Did you go out door-to-door and things like this? Just how did you work to make sure the streets did become paved?

Mohair:
Well, we would meet on Sunday evenings usually, and I think we would usually meet at the American Legion Hall in the black community and sort of organize ourselves and divide up areas and that sort of thing. We'd do sane planning as to how much time we would spend and that sort of thing. We would usually divide up -- some whites, some blacks -- for all areas. We would go door-to-door, and sometimes we were in mud up to our ankles because if it rained those streets weren't paved. Trudy Foster ruined, I know, good shoes walking in all that mud and stuff. Of course, we were used to it (chuckle), so it wasn't as bad for us, but it didn't make any difference to her. She got out and walked right with us, and so did many of the others that are on this list, also.

Some were a lot friendlier than others when we asked them because a few of them felt like we were trying to intrude upon them and make them sign over their property rights. Of course, there was a question about easements and that sort of thing that meant you had to sign over so many feet of property for utility purposes and that sort of thing. So a lot of them were afraid that what they were signing was not just a simple matter of easement, that maybe we were trying to take advantage of them and that sort of thing. So we kind of met with those kind of questions and things, but we were finally able to convince them that it was not to take their property but only to help improve their property as well as the value of their property. Because of the street paving, their property value would go up.

Of course, like I say, we had a hard time locating some of the out-of-town property owners. Then we did locate some of them, and they felt like because it was in the black community that they didn't want to invest that money into such a project. They didn't deem it necessary.

Then we had one black fellow in the community that had quite a bit of property, and he would not consent to having his property paved. So that meant that the street was paved halfway in front of his property. The other side where the people paid was paved, and the other side where he didn't pay wasn't paved (chuckle). You could imagine that. It wasn't just only his property. There were some where, of course, the whites didn't deem it necessary to put money into that area, and the same thing happened. For that reason it was kind of an eyesore, and it didn't look nearly as nice as it would have if it would have been completed.

Byrd:
You stipulated earlier that Ms. Foster had run into some resistance at City Hall and whatnot. Was there any resistance from, say, maybe leaders in the community other than city officials to your suggested programs? Was there a power structure?

Mohair:
I don't know. You may have city council involved here somehow.  They have some back-and-forth type of dialogue here in this book that's been documented. It's a record of how they really felt about it, and it gives names. She was real smart in accomplishing those things. But I'm not at all sure where all the resistance came from.

Byrd:
Were you supported by your family during your participation in the group?

Mohair:
Well, yes. Of course, my children were just small at that time,  and so it was more or less just my husband and I who were involved. Certainly there were no objections.

Byrd:
It's my understanding that the group met one week, say, in a black home and the next week in a white home and held kind of a "round robin" type or series of meetings. I've heard from some that there was some resistance by neighbors to whites coming into the black community to meet in black homes; and vice versa, blacks going into the white sections of town. Neighbors wanted to know what was going on here. Did you notice any of that during the time you were associated with the group?

Mohair:
No, not that I recall. I sure don't. I can't think of a single incident. The group met in my home before, and I can't remember any incidents.

Byrd:
Did you publicize in the paper your meeting times or solicit membership in that fashion?

Mohair:
Through the media?

Byrd:
Yes.

Mohair:
Not that I recall. I think it was more or less by word-of-mouth. Possibly, we worked through the churches. Like I said, it's been a long time ago, and I don't remember. But I heard about it by word-of-mouth.

Byrd:
Besides the street paving, were there other programs or activities that you were involved in?

Mohair:
We had lots of projects, I'm sure. This was, I guess, the major one and the one I can remember because it affected my community and our lives so much.

They would conduct forums for political candidates and that sort of thing -- settings for questions and answers from the black community as to how the candidates were intending to help the black community, being that they wanted the black votes and that sort of thing. I felt like that was a good thing. Some of the members were involved with the League of Women Voters, and so we did some things with that group, also. At times we would have television appearances with some of the members through the League of Women Voters. I even appeared once, myself, on Channel Eleven, I think it was.

Like I say, we had lots of crafts and things that we would get together and exchange ideas and exchange cultural habits and thinqs, cooking styles and recipes and things of that sort. I'm sure others will think of a lot of good projects we had. My memory fails me. We had book reports and things. I'm sure that later I'll think of a lot more.

Byrd:
In conjunction with political forums, did you conduct voter registration drives to make sure that everyone in the group itself or in the neighborhood were registered to vote.

Mohair:
I'm sure we did; I'm sure we did. I can't really pinpoint a certain date, but I'm sure we did as part of the awareness that we were trying to promote.

Byrd:
Was the street paving operation a spinoff of the urban renewal concerns that were going on about 1966, a couple of years before this paving? Do you recall any group members or the group itself active in the urban renewal movement.

Mohair:
Well, I think that's addressed in here [the document], also, I can remember. Some felt that maybe the street paving should have been done through a project such as that. As I remember, it was voted out. They didn't want urban renewal in this area. So I really cannot say exactly what the direct motivation was, except maybe some just saw the need and were motivated to do something about it.

Byrd:
What do you think caused the demise of the group? I talked to Carol Riddlesperger, and she was talking about, I think, the tenth reunion or the fifteenth reunion of the group. She remembered going to a reunion, but she couldn't recall when it ended. Some of the other folks I talked to couldn't remember when the group just kind of petered out. Why do you think it didn't last?

Mohair:
Well, I guess it kind of outlived its usefulness, I suppose, for that particular era of ladies and families. Most of their children had grown up and were in college or married or something. So I guess the usefulness just kind of played out, being that the black and white community kind of began to mix and mingle more, I think, on its own and on the college campuses. That sort of thing just kind of got things moving as far as integrating the city. When all the marches and that sort of thing came in, many of the places were integrated. The places downtown, like I was saying, that we couldn't go to were opened up and that sort of thing. So I guess things just kind of started to evolve around that. Things were happening. We were talking and trying to make things happen, and we did as much as we could to make things happen to where we felt like it was going to be important in affecting our lives and our families and that sort of thing and reaching out to people. When other things began to take place on, I think, on a larger scale, then...I don't know...we just stopped meeting.

Byrd:
I'd like to thank you for the time you've shared with me today. We might want to talk with you again, if that would be agreeable with you, and maybe make another session with you down the road. Again, I'd like to thank you.

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